In this written interview with The Vast Minority, writer Paul Cudenec calls for anarchists to unite in "total opposition" to the global capitalist system. He says he is trying to unearth the primal force behind the philosophy and argues that anarchism has the potential to become a new "religion" for the current age.
Q: Your book The
Anarchist Revelation is very much focused around presenting an anarchist
spirituality. Why?
That’s the question I hopefully go some way to answering
over the course of some 150 pages! In short, there are two separate, and yet
interwoven, strands. Firstly there is the individual question – how can an
alienated individual such as an anarchist, who is sane enough to find the
contemporary capitalist world insane, carry on living in that world?
Involvement in the anarchist struggle is part of the answer, but you also need
something more than that, some greater perspective to fall back on in times of
doubt or isolation.
I think anarchism, historically, has always offered a depth
of vision that can sustain and propel an individual through adversity but, if
we start to regard anarchism not as a life-philosophy but as a narrowly defined
social movement, we will lose contact with that vital force.
Secondly, there’s
the spiritual depth of the anarchist movement as a whole. To me, it stands
opposed to the modern materialist mindset at a fundamental level. It’s not just
that we reject all those assumptions about the legitimacy of authority,
property or privilege, but we also reject the blinkered and one-dimensional
thinking of the current age.
Anarchy is lateral thinking, creative thinking,
poetic thinking in many ways, and in that it has a lot in common with something
like Sufism, the esoteric strand of Islam. It’s not stuck on the one level -
like Marxism is, for example. And I think we need to reconnect to that
imaginative and fluid side of anarchist thought.
Q: But there’s a
difference between the vitality or fluidity of a philosophy and this idea of
“spirituality”. Why does that come in? Why does it have to come in?
Spirituality for me is all about using the parts of our mind
that are left to wither away in a purely materialist society, where nothing it
considered valid unless it can be “empirically” proven to be so. These are the
powers we need to reignite, on both an individual and collective level.
Q: But what about the
religious aspect to “spirituality” that you do evoke in your book? Are you
suggesting that these unused parts of our mind are something to do with a
supernatural element?
Not supernatural, no. But my definition of what is natural,
and real, would go a lot further than what’s generally understood by that. As
far as religion goes, the only religion I’m promoting is anarchism. OK, maybe
it’s not quite a religion at the moment, but I think it has the potential to
be, if it doesn’t cut itself off from the less materialist aspects of its
philosophy that take it up in that direction.
Q: So what kind of
religion would anarchism be? A religion with no god?
There doesn’t have to be a “god”, in the sense in which it’s
normally meant in the West. It’s all about an holistic vision, understanding
that on every level of existence everything is interconnected and ultimately
part of the one entity. On a human level, this is already the anarchist
position – mutual aid, co-operation, solidarity and so on. On a planetary level
this is the environmentalist position – the Gaia idea of a living Earth. On a
cosmic level, this becomes a Buddhist or Taoist idea of the ultimate unity.
I
think that anarchism naturally embraces the holistic approach on the other
levels, as well, thus expanding itself into a complete vision of life, rather
than remaining merely a social or economic programme spiced up with a
confrontational attitude.
Q: Is this a bad thing,
then, a “confrontational attitude”? Should anarchists be adopting the quietism
of Eastern mystics?
Not at all. A confrontational attitude is essential for
anarchism. I think we need to be more confrontational, in fact, in contexts
other than street battles with the police or fascists. We need to be more
confrontational in our refusal of the moral claims of the state, by stating
clearly that we don’t accept that they have the right to rule us, to jail us,
to control us in any way. Of course, we recognise the reality that they can do so, in the same way that a large man with
a knife has the physical ability to rob me in the street, but we should make it
clear that we don’t buy into their lie that there is any moral legitimacy behind this.
We also need to
be more confrontational in attacking the limits that are placed around possible
futures. Although it’s often a tactically good idea to work with reformist
campaigns, if only to help stem the tide of increasing capitalist domination,
we should never stop talking about the completely different society that is our
vision and inspiration. It doesn’t matter if people can’t grasp that this could
ever happen, that they are conditioned by society to think that such a future
is not only undesirable but also impossible.
We have to keep our black flag
flying so that the vision stays alive, at least on an abstract level, and it’s
there for people to turn to one day when they finally realise that the only
alternative is going to be a future of slavery and misery for the vast majority
of humanity. What we need to reclaim is the total opposition to the current
system that was historically offered by anarchism. There’s such a strength in
that.
Also, by the way, there’s nothing necessarily quietist or pacifist about
faiths like Buddhism – take the Tibetan monks in their struggle against Chinese
occupation, for a start. Many religions are used by authorities to promote
obedience and submission, and Buddhism is no exception, but that doesn’t
reflect on its innate qualities or its potential as an aid to human liberation.
Q: Total opposition? That
sounds quite full-on!
In the context in which I just used it, I meant total
opposition in a philosophical sense – attacking the current death-system at its
roots, rather than focusing on trimming it back here and there. But I do think
that’s what we need, at every level. Otherwise nothing will change, all
possibilities of improvement will remain blocked and the future will be like
this, only a thousand times worse.
Q: There’s a strong
environmental current running through your work. Would you describe yourself as
an eco-anarchist?
I have done, yes, though I’m tending now to focus on just
being an anarchist, which I think is enough. For a start, I can’t see that
anything other than anarchism – and the total opposition that it involves – is
going to save the planet. The system is not going to reform itself or
voluntarily concede any power or control. I also don’t feel there’s a need for
any of us to qualify our anarchism with adjectives.
I’ve been playing around
with the notion of an Anarchy Threshold, this being the “finishing tape” that
all anarchists are aiming at, the point at which humankind can said to be
liberated. The idea is that we don’t really have to argue about what happens
after that, because, as anarchists, we’re saying that the people around at the
time (whenever it actually happens!) will decide that, by their actions and
views, among themselves.
So it doesn’t matter if my vision of a better future
is one without factories, while my comrade sees the need for a continuation of
some form of industrialism. Neither of us will be in a position to decide that.
As anarchists we’re not about imposing our views on others anyway, even if we
could do so. So it’s purely theoretical – our only input is in putting forward
our own visions of how life could be.
If we have faith in a free humanity, we will have faith in the future it will
create for itself in an anarchist society. Personally, I can’t see that a
post-capitalist world would be industrial in any way, because industrialism is capitalism.
The capitalists are right
when they say that without the profit incentive, we wouldn’t have what they
call “progress” – it’s the forces of money and power, feeding off each other,
that have spawned the industrial hell in which we are all forced to live today
and the moment that there is no more capitalism there will be no raison d’être for factories, oil
refineries, nuclear power stations, shopping malls and so on.
I don’t have to
argue too much with other anarchists about what a future anarchist society
would look like, though. Firstly, because it’s not my call – or theirs.
Secondly, because I know, in my own heart, that an anarchist society would not
be an industrial one. It will all unfold in due course. And in the meantime,
before the Anarchy Threshold has been reached, our only aim should be to work
towards that point with a diversity of tactics and a respect for each others’ personal
visions.
Q: Isn’t that a bit
naïve, to think that anarchists could all work together happily ever after?
It’s not naïve to think we should all work together – or at least not snipe at each other. If
we can’t, then perhaps that’s something to do with the egos of individuals
concerned (not just inflated egos, but fragile ones as well) – and that is
something that can be addressed by an individual spiritual approach that is a
microcosm of our social struggle, as I describe in the book. It’s about
rediscovering our strength and clarity, both individually and collectively.
Q: The language in your
book can be quite academic at times – do you feel that this can create a
barrier to people understanding what you’re saying and limit the numbers who
are going to read your message?
Firstly, I’m not a professional academic and I try to make
my meaning clear to readers. It’s difficult, though, to express complex ideas
without using the short cut of a certain vocabulary – otherwise the end result
would be both long-winded and a little patronising.
Secondly, when you’re
quoting writers like Herbert Marcuse or Karl Jaspers it would be strange if the
surrounding text was in a completely different register – the flow wouldn’t be
there. Thirdly, part of theme of The Anarchist Revelation is the lowering of
the intellectual level and the denial by the narrow positivist mindset of
people’s ability to think clearly and profoundly. Dumbing-down the language in
which that sort of argument is expressed seems to me like something of an own
goal!
It’s not just a question of vocabulary, but also the way ideas are
expressed. Everything doesn’t always have to be compressed into soundbites. I
do take on board the criticism to a certain extent, though, and I would like to
work on ways of communicating these ideas in a way that they can be more
readily absorbed.
Q: Finally, your book
draws on the work of a whole range of writers, many of whom are not anarchists.
How would you respond to criticism that you risk diluting the anarchist message
and confusing it with unrelated strands of thought. Is this some kind of
“post-anarchism” that you’re serving up?
No, it’s not “post-anarchism”. If anything, I’m trying to
unearth an “Ur-anarchism”, a primal force behind the philosophy, hence my foray
into the worlds of hermeticism, alchemy, Sufism and Taoism.
I think it’s a
mistake to imagine that anarchism is, or should be, some kind of self-contained
bubble of consciously-limited political analysis. It’s not airtight, but
porous. Anarchism influences the world around it and it is, in turn, influenced
by that world. The fact that an idea is expressed by a particular individual does
not make it “their” idea anyway; it’s all drawn from the common cultural
resource of humanity.
So if a writer expresses something that seems valid and
interesting to me, I don’t have to agree with everything else they ever wrote
or did in order for me to make use of it in my work and acknowledge where I
read it. To me, it’s actually exciting to find anarchist ideas bubbling up in
unexpected places, as it makes it clear that our vision is not as peripheral as
the thought-authorities would like to make out.
Anarchism is the political
label we give to a massive underground river of suppressed thinking that is
flowing under the streets of our materialist capitalist civilization, waiting
to rise up and sweep away its factories, prisons and city halls. Ultimately, it’s
the life-force itself and as such it’s unstoppable.
Paul Cudenec’s new
book The Anarchist Revelation is published by Winter Oak Press. For more
information see www.paulcudenec.blogspot.co.uk and
winteroakpress.blogspot.co.uk
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